Two men and woman denied child sex abuse allegations in Garda interview, trial hears

Eimear Dodd

Two men and a woman denied allegations of sexually assaulting and raping a young girl when interviewed by gardaí, the Central Criminal Court has heard.

Memos from the three defendants' separate Garda interviews were read to the jury on Thursday.

The three defendants cannot be named for legal reasons. They deny wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges.

The woman, who is in her 50s and the complainant's mother, has pleaded not guilty to 13 counts of sexual assault on dates between 2000 and 2009, and between 2012 and 2014, primarily at the family home.

She also pleaded not guilty to one count of rape, in that she facilitated the rape of the complainant by her uncle.

Gardaí asked her to comment on the allegation that she sexually assaulted her daughter for the first time before she was four. The woman replied “that never happened or anything like it as far as I’m concerned”.

She said she felt “very upset, slightly sick”, adding “I don’t understand how anyone would do that, I certainly didn’t”.

She denied sexually assaulting her daughter on other occasions, including during a holiday to a family-owned holiday home. She said she didn't believe she had gone on that holiday.

The woman further said “that didn't happen” when asked if she allegedly sexually assaulted her daughter for a final time when the girl was 15.

In direct evidence earlier in the trial, the complainant said her mother was present while the girl's uncle raped her.

The woman denied facilitating this or being present, “that never happened either”, she told gardaí.

She was also asked about the complainant's allegation that she saw her mother and uncle engage in sex with each other while she was present in a room.

The woman denied having had sex with her brother. “That’s very vicious. I don’t understand that at all,” she said.

She denied having issues with alcohol. When gardaí suggested that her alcohol dependency may be greater than she wanted to acknowledge, the woman said she only drank at weekends and had worked full-time until the mid 2010s.

She might drink a bottle of wine on a night off she said, but rejected the suggestion she became aggressive when drunk.

Gardaí suggested that the complainant had described a household of “total chaos” when she was a child. “This didn't happen, it's very upsetting,” the woman replied.

When an extract from the complainant's statement referring to her drinking was read, the woman said these were “very hurtful and upsetting”, adding that she didn't understand why her daughter would make these allegations.

Gardaí asked her about the allegation that she bit her daughter. The woman replied: “I don’t know what to say to that, I don’t remember any occasion like that”. She later added that other adult relatives in the house would have “tackled me if I did”.

The woman was also asked to comment on her daughter's allegation that another man orally raped her.

The complainant gave evidence during the trial that this man – a friend of her mother's then partner - orally raped her, during which he told her “Your mother knows”. The woman denied any knowledge of this.

She confirmed that her daughter went to live with two female friends and later moved to the family owned holiday home. She said she tried to get the complainant to move back but has had “pretty much no contact” with her daughter since.

The woman was asked if her daughter was a liar. “I haven’t spoken to [the complainant] in a long time, I never thought she was”.

“Do you think she is now?” gardaí asked. “Yes,” the woman replied.

When asked how she feels about the complainant, the woman said: “hurt, distressed, and confused. I’m anxious about her and I’m worried about her”.

She said she didn't know why her daughter would make these allegations, but suggested the complainant might have felt “shoved out” after moving in with the two female family friends.

In his Garda interviews, the complainant's uncle denied raping the complainant.

This man, who is in his 40s, has pleaded not guilty to five counts of rape and one of oral rape on dates between 2003 and 2012, all at the family home.

He described the allegations as “mindboggling” and later said he didn't know why his niece would make them.

He further denied raping the girl in his bedroom while her mother was present, saying “that never happened”.

This man also denied ever engaging in sex with his sister, the complainant's mother.

When asked if the complainant was a liar, he said “I would have said no, until this. I thought she was always telling the truth, but not after this”.

The complainant's uncle denied that there was alcohol dependency in the house.

A second man said he thought the allegation made against him was “outrageous” when he was interviewed by gardai.

This second man, aged in his 50s, has pleaded not guilty to one count of oral rape between 2008 and 2009 at the same address. The jury has heard he was a friend of the accused woman's then partner.

The court heard that he replied “I've nothing to hide” after caution.

During his Garda interview, he said, “I never touched that lady”.

He said he didn't want to say more, adding “I never went near that girl and I swear it on my mother's and father's grave.”

In other evidence, a garda said that the complainant did not make allegations of a sexual nature when she spoke to him in 2015 about a separate matter.

Two female family friends also told the jury that the complainant moved to their home when she was about 18 and again during the second Covid-19 lockdown.

These women, who are sisters, said the complainant was neglected as a child and that the household was chaotic. They also said the adults in the complainant's home when she was a child all had issues with alcohol.

The first woman gave direct evidence that “alcohol had a place in their house that a cup of tea would have in someone else’s”.

Both women confirmed that a family-owned holiday house was left in trust to one sister for the benefit of the complainant following the death of an adult relative.

Defence counsel put extracts to them from the complainant's counselling records which referred to these two women. They both agreed with defence counsel that there had been arguments while the complainant stayed with them during the second Covid-19 lockdown.

One witness said she could not explain the meaning of these notes, adding that they related to the complainant.

The first female family friend denied a suggestion from Desmond Dockery SC, representing the complainant’s mother, that she pushed the complainant to make sexual allegations against her mother.

During re-examination, this witness said she and her sister “absolutely” did not put pressure on the complainant to make allegations against her mother.

Her sister told Mr Dockery that the atmosphere turned “septic” while the complainant was living with them during the second Covid-19 lockdown. She said there were arguments and that she had been “terrified” for the complainant's mental health.

She denied a suggestion from Mr Dockery that she or her sister put pressure on the complainant to make allegations against her mother. “Absolutely not. I find what [the complainant] said about [her mother] appalling.”

“Why would I want her to make up a story about my friend,” she said. “I never heard of a mom abusing her kid, I never heard of a story like that”.

The trial at the Central Criminal Court continues.

If you have been affected by any of the issues raised in this article, you can call the national 24-hour Rape Crisis Helpline at 1800 77 8888, access text service and webchat options at drcc.ie/services/helpline or visit Rape Crisis Help